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Wednesday

Continuing with the removal of the old steering system, I turned to the quadrant bolted to the rudder shaft.  This was held in place with a machined keyway, and the two-piece aluminum quadrant was secured together with four machine bolts plus two through bolts.  Fortunately, all six bolts came out without major effort, releasing the quadrant.  The key was well stuck to the quadrant and came out on its own.  I sprayed some penetrating oil on the stuffing box nuts to let them soak for a while so I could eventually service the packing and/or drop the rudder for some needed repairs.

The lack of proper rudder stops (as I mentioned earlier, the rudder stop assembly I recently removed had been installed apparently upside down) was directly responsible for the damage at the top edge of the rudder, since the rudder, even with the pedestal steering, could be turned too far to each side.  This caused the rudder to hit the  hull at its inward edge, causing, over time, the damage seen to the top of the rudder blade.  I’d have to install some sort of proper stop system for the new tiller-driven steering later, and hoped to drop the rudder at least partially out in order to effect the repairs to the top of the blade.  All this to be determined in due course.

Since I was in the cockpit lockers anyway, I finished up the removal of several through hulls, including the engine exhaust and bilge outlets and yet another transducer.  I’d already cut off the tops of these fittings, but now I worked to remove the remainders and the backing plates, when installed.

I drained the icebox of its moldering contents, and quickly cleaned up the interior a bit.  The two icebox lids were beyond salvage, full of disgusting moldy saturated wood and foam, and I threw them away rather than worry about attempting to rebuild them, as their construction was hardly worth emulating anyway.

Meanwhile, I removed the galley sink drain through hull, a small through hull from the engine room, and yet another transducer located beneath the port settee in the main cabin.  I’d patch all these openings later once I got into the repair stage of the project.

The cockpit scuppers and galley sink drains featured bronze mushrooms and that were fiberglassed to the hull from within.  The easiest way to remove these fittings was to drill them out with a hole saw, but first I needed a way to center the bit in the opening.  To this end, I masked over the outsides of the openings, then filled inside with a thickened epoxy mixture, leaving it to cure.  This only had to provide a solid-enough plug for starting the hole saw once cured.  My epoxy was a little looser than I’d planned and wanted to run out of the steeply-angled scupper fittings, but a little masking tape helped stem the flow.

In the main cabin bilge, I wiped out as much gunk and chunks as possible, then decided to add cleaner and soak the bilge for a couple days, hoping to loosen the accumulated grime.  The detergent didn’t suds as much as I’d expected, but with some agitation on and off during the rest of the week the soak might have a positive impact.

Finally, I disassembled the propeller shaft stuffing box, which I’d removed with the shaft still stuck inside earlier, and tossed the remnants of the shaft.  I expected to clean up and re-use the stuffing box assembly later.

With most disassembly chores now behind me and at a logical stopping point for the moment, I decided to grab the opportunity afforded by better-than-expected weather outside to work on an ongoing mast project and enjoy the fine spring-like conditions for the remainder of the afternoon.

Total time billed on this job today:  4.75 hours

0600 Weather Observation:  32°, cloudy.  Forecast for the day:  Rain or snow shower, then mainly cloudy, 40s (it ended up being sunny and mid-50s in the afternoon)

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Tuesday

Getting started in the main cabin, I removed the door trim  from the opening between the main and forward cabins, removing the trim from both sides and maintaining the pieces for reference in creating replacements later.

This freed up the old Formica covering on the bulkhead, and now I removed this, as it was poorly adhered and generally in poor condition.  The plywood bulkhead beneath, made up of two layers of plywood secured together to cover the large space, looked to be in sound condition.  This bulkhead does not carry rigging loads, and was not tabbed at the overhead or otherwise secured there beyond a pair of wooden blocks bolted through the coachroof at the corners, and to which the bulkhead was bolted.  This, along with the trim when installed, held the top edge of the bulkhead more or less rigid.  The after bulkhead at the forward end of the engine room was similar in its installation.

I removed the baseboard trim from the main cabin, then turned to the head area and removed all the trim from within, including the final piece of the original companionway ladder trim that I’d attempted to remove before, which I found had additional screws securing it from behind one of the head trims.

I was more than ready to be done with the steering pedestal.  It cluttered up the cockpit and didn’t allow good access fore and aft, as the wheel was large enough as to prohibit access around the edges without standing on the seats, and it was about the last major installation standing in the way of other progress.  Before I could remove it, though, I needed to remove the steering cables.  In the starboard side locker, the original fiberglass fuel tank stood in the way, and needed to be removed anyway, so I decided to go ahead with that.

First, though, since the owner and I had talked about creating an access hatch through the large poop deck, both for better light and access to the aft part of the boat as well as for increased convenient storage, I decided now was the perfect time to cut an opening.  After inspecting the deck from below to locate anything that might stand in the way of or limit the size of the new opening, I marked out a rectangle on deck, staying a few inches aft of the traveler location.  I cut out the hatch with a saw, revealing plywood core in sound condition though with some top-skin delamination at one edge.  I might enlarge the opening later, but for now it allowed in light and air and made continued work in the aft lockers more enjoyable tolerable.

The fuel tank was tabbed to the hull along its two exposed edges (outboard and forward), and while the gauge read nearly empty, I decided to look inside, since there was a little access port there, which had only one screw securing it along with (what else) silicone sealant.  Clearly this hatch had leaked over the years, as the top of the tank showed plenty of leakage evidence.  Removing the hatch, I confirmed there was just a small amount of fuel in the tank, so I could proceed without having to pump out the contents.  With a reciprocating saw, I cut the fiberglass nipples for the vent and fill hoses at the aft end, then cut the tabbing along the hull, releasing the tank.

The tank was just too large, it seemed, to twist out of the cockpit locker opening, but fortunately it fit over the divider bulkhead and through the head, and I gladly removed it down to the shop floor.  With the tank gone, I found my two sets of Vice-Grips that I’d lost in the inaccessible void beneath the tank when I was removing deck hardware back in September.

With better access now, I turned back to the steering system.  A hefty plywood platform was secured across the two structural members just above the steering quadrant, and served no purpose now; actually, it had served no purpose ever, that I could tell, since it appeared to have been installed upside down.  I think it was meant as a support for cast iron rudder stops, to prevent overturning, but these faced upwards and did nothing to limit rudder movement.   In any event, the platform limited access to the quadrant, and while access was possible with it in place, since it served no further purpose I decided to remove it. The platform was secured with angle brackets on both sides, and with the fuel tank gone I could easily  (using the term relatively) access the starboard side bolts and remove them.

Moving to the other side, I removed the nuts from the bracket, but couldn’t easily remove the bolts since the long bolts hanging down from the platform itself were in the way.  So I cut through the platform just inboard of the bracket, making it easier to remove in two pieces.  This exposed the steering quadrant to make additional work more convenient.

The steering cables were attached with fussy little half-hidden eye bolts, which in the original installation allow for tension adjustment of the cables.  After working on one of these for a few minutes, my impatience got the better of me and I cut through both cables with my saw, just so I could get the pedestal out.  I’d come back later and work on removing the two-piece quadrant from the shaft (though it caused no particular harm if left in place), but for now I was ready to unbolt and remove the pedestal itself.  The four nuts securing the pedestal guard bases were easy to remove, and I pushed the bolts up from beneath.

I couldn’t remove the large aluminum nuts from beneath the pedestal from beneath:  the bolts turned.  So I clamped the nuts with Vice-Grips and tried loosening from above, using an impact gun on the slotted heads.  This worked for  two of the bolts, but on the other two the aluminum slots spun out.  I drilled out the remaining two heads, which was easy enough since they were aluminum, then snapped (in one instance) or cut off (t’other) the bolts and nuts from beneath, releasing the steel bottom plate and bronze cable sheaves, and then allowing me to remove the pedestal from above.

What a nice openness the pedestal removal gave the cockpit.  It’s a small cockpit well, and the helm dominated the space.

Total time billed on this job today:  7.5 hours

0600 Weather Observation:  12°, clear.  Forecast for the day:  Mainly sunny with increasing clouds late in the day, around 50°

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Monday

Hoping to disassemble the top part of the steering pedestal, I removed the compass to expose the innards.  The long screws securing the compass binnacle to the top of the pedestal–stainless steel into aluminum–were heavily stuck in place with corrosion and I couldn’t budge them, so I soaked them in penetrating oil for the moment.  Meanwhile, I failed yet again to pull the wheel off the shaft despite massive pressure on the gear pulling tool.  I abandoned the disassembly for now and, while I was in the cockpit, removed a few last bits of hardware from the cockpit well, including the locker latches, the old manual bilge pump, and the engine stop cable.

Earlier, the owner and I had discussed the fate of the pedestal, and he indicated a possible interest in converting to tiller steering rather than attempt to revive or replace the wheel steering.  Given the current state of the pedestal, I decided it was time to confirm this choice, and some other pressing questions, and later, after a phone conference, he made the decision that the tiller conversion was his choice.  Fortunately, this looked to be a straightforward conversion, since the rudder shaft already extended above the cockpit seat, where it had been covered with a nice little teak seat, and there was even a keyway machined into the shaft, ready to accept a tiller head.,

Since I now knew the pedestal wouldn’t be reused or require more work from me, I abandoned the disassembly and planned to soon remove the pedestal entirely from beneath.  In the meantime, I got back to work in the cabin removing the rest of the trim.  I discussed the condition of the trim with the owner, and he agreed that since much of the old teak was dark, stained, and dirty, as well as damaged in several places and generally nothing special to begin with, it made sense going forward to consider replacing the trim with a new wood of his choice rather than expend extensive effort carefully saving each piece of trim in the boat, then refinishing and reinstalling it all.  While I planned to save any trim pieces that were worthwhile for another use, many of the small, thin pieces would require more effort to remove than to replace, and this streamlined the dismantling of the interior since I didn’t have to spend a lot of time on great care.

Beginning in the forward cabin, I removed the large fiddles around the edges of the berth, then removed the ceiling strips from the hull, a laborious process with many screws.

At the after end of the space, I removed the trim from inside the forward hatch (which was to be replaced with a new, modern deck hatch), and removed all the trim from around the aft end of the berths and hanging lockers.  The plywood main bulkhead was covered with high pressure laminate, which seemed largely loose and, once I removed some final trim around the large door to the space, looked to be relatively easily removable.  This would be required since the existing surface was in poor condition and not worthy of re-use.

Later, on deck, I removed the forward hatch trim, leaving the raw opening in the deck.  The exposed core in the cutout was in good condition to the extent visible.

In the main cabin, I removed the two sliding doors from the opening to the forward cabin.  I’d remove the rest of the door trim in the near future.  For now, I noted details for future reconstruction.

In mid-afternoon, the new bronze garboard drain I’d ordered arrived, and I spent a few minutes installing it right away, to give the sealant time to cure and so I could move on with the full-soak bilge cleaning later in the week.  After removing the bottom paint and other coatings from the area, I expanded the small drain hole I’d created earlier, keeping the new hole as low as I could, then prepared fastener holes, drilling and tapping for #10 machine screws.  Then I installed the new fitting with plenty of polyurethane sealant (4200), securing it with four bronze screws.  Inside, since I had access, I added nuts to the insides of the screws.

I spent the remainder of the day removing most of the trim in the main cabin, including bulkhead trim and fiddles.

Total time billed on this job today:  7.25 hours

0600 Weather Observation:  14°, clear.  Forecast for the day:  Sunny, 41°

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Friday

Before pulling the engine from the boat, I had a little setup to  finish up, starting with moving my large gantry crane from the other shop bay, something I usually liked to avoid but in this instance there was no option.  With the ground frozen overnight, moving the crane outdoors from one bay to the other was at least possible; soft ground makes it impractical.  I shuffled staging horses and other stuff in the shop to make room for the crane to roll back above the companionway.

Inside the boat, I built a simple ramp, made from an old plank and some blocking, running from the engine room door to the head door beneath the companionway.  I’d  use this to slide the engine forward once I had it out of the engine room.

To lift the engine, the only direct overhead access was through a little recess in the cockpit seat, designed for a compass or, on this boat with a pedestal compass, to twist one’s ankles unexpectedly.  I drilled a large hole through the center of the recess, which allowed me to drop the hook from my hoist right through.  The hole would be easy to patch later.  I attached a short chain to the two lifting points on the engine, and I was ready to go.

Pulling the engine was actually much less of an issue than I’d anticipated.  With all connections to the boat already severed, it was a cinch to lift the engine, and fortunately there was ample room in the overhead hole as well as overhead clearance to allow me to pull the engine sideways and forward till I got it balanced on the plank, at which time I could slide it safely into the head.  I had to twist the engine slightly through the engine room door to accommodate the mounting flanges, but the process was quick and painless.  After unhooking, I slid the engine forward down my plank till it was beneath the companionway opening.

Moving the crane and rehooking the lift chain, I prepared to pull the engine out the companionway.    I knew the engine couldn’t fit directly through the doorway opening, and my first inclination was to remove the two wide mounting flanges from the port side of the engine.  Lifting the engine till it hung,  and I could turn it to access the bolts, I made an attempt to release the rusty fasteners, but to no immediate avail.  I imagine I could and would have succeeded, but eyeballing things now it looked like I might be able to twist the engine through this opening too, as long as I did it backwards (transmission first).  This worked!

Now it was straightforward to lift the engine up and over the companionway, and I lowered it to the floor and a waiting cart.

After taking advantage of still-frozen (barely) ground outdoors to move the crane back to the other side, as I didn’t want it cluttering up the main work bay, I got back to work in the engine room.  I threw a mess of rags into the bilge to soak up the remaining water, and focused on removing the old engine foundation.  Inspecting this now that the engine was out of the way, I saw that there had been a repair/reinforcement to the port side of the rig, though even this had failed, with the steel foundation cracked through just forward of the port forward mount.

The steel foundation was secured to the boat with three bolts through the forward bulkhead (the forward ends of these bolts were completely inaccessible, so I hoped the exposed nuts would come off without spinning the bolts), plus two lags driven through the tops of the foundation into a structural member attached to the hull, plus two carriage bolts securing a vertical flange to the same member.  The lags came out easily (they were wasted down to thin stubs), but of course the carriage bolt heads spun when I tried to loosen the nuts.  Fortunately there was ample screw length beyond the nut to allow me to clamp on with some locking pliers and loosen the nuts for removal.

Two of the three forward nuts came off with ease; for the final nut, and final fastener, I pried the whole foundation loose elsewhere, creating pressure on the stud that allowed me to loosen and remove the nut and remove the old foundation from the boat.

With decent access now, I cleaned up the ooze from the bottom of the bilge.  As soon as my new garboard drain arrived and I could install it, I planned to thoroughly soak and clean the bilges to remove accumulated oil buildup.

There was yet another transducer mounted in the hull directly beneath the old engine; this boat has more transducer fittings in the bottom than I’ve ever seen, at least 4.  I planned to remove them all and patch the holes later.

The waterlift muffler was bolted through a little wooden platform behind the engine.  With no future plans nor need for this, I sawed out the platform and removed the whole assembly and its remaining hoses.  At the same time, I removed three old frozen through hulls from the space, including the scuppers.  The old fittings were threaded on to bronze fittings glassed to the hull, and replacement of all these fittings, as required for future needs, was on the list, so for the moment I simply cut through the fittings near the hull to clear the way.

The aperture for the propeller was quite small, with barely 1/4″ tip clearance at the tops of the blades, and little room between the shaft and the rudder.  There was no way to pull the shaft out from here, as the rudder obviated a clear passage.  Hoping to remove the propeller, I set up my puller, which barely fit into place (my other puller designed for 2-blade props wouldn’t fit in the tight confines at all).  Using only two of the three bolts intended, I still thought I could pop the prop free, but instead one of the bolts sheared almost lengthwise, a sort of failure I found quite amazing.

With the prop still firmly stuck in place, and no anticipated need for this propeller in the new configuration anyway, I decided to cut the shaft from outside, which would allow me to remove it from inside the boat and get on with things.  The old stuffing box hose–a very long length that had extended from the bronze stern tube forward of the exhaust platform to give access to the stuffing box–was in poor condition, and I had to cut the after clamps and hose in order to remove it along with the remains of the shaft.

That was about it for the engine room for now, except for the old engine control cables dangling from the pedestal above.  I’d address that and the steering system in its entirety soon.  For now, I made an attempt to remove the wheel for better access, but so far this was firmly stuck in place on the shaft and with plenty of tension on a gear puller I still didn’t seem to be making progress.  I left this set up and hoped that continued pressure would help pull the wheel off the shaft.

Finally, with just a little time left and no desire to get into anything big, I decided it was a good time to remove the stem fitting securing the bobstay.  Access to the inside of the bolts was through a small hole in the chainlocker bulkhead, which wasn’t too bad to get to through the large storage area below the v-berth.  I clamped on vice-grips inside and removed the fasteners from outside without issue.  This fitting, like many others so far, was bedded (or not) in white silicone.

Total time billed on this job today:  7 hours

0600 Weather Observation:  20°, clear.  Forecast for the day:  Sun and clouds, 40°

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Thursday

My earlier work in the engine room above the deep and dirty, water-filled bilge had identified a pressing need to drain the water to make it easier to retrieve the tools that I seemed to to continually drop.  So to begin, I made a simple measurement to determine the depth of the bilge:  I measured from one of the scuppers down to the bottom, which enabled me to easily recreate the measurement outside the boat, where I drilled a small hole to release the bilge contents into a bucket.  I planned to install a bronze garboard plug in this location soon, which would help me soak, scrub, clean, and drain the bilge more easily.

Back in the engine room, I continued removing whatever ancillary parts I could in order to reduce the width of the engine for removal.  During the course of the morning, I removed the bracket for the heat exchanger, the bolt-on pulley-driven raw water pump (along with the raw water filter and extraneous hoses), the starter and solenoid, and the oil filter (which I had to remove for better access to the starter).  Elsewhere in the space, I removed the cockpit scupper fittings, which increased headroom, and the fuel filter and fuel lines.  This left the engine pretty well stripped down and about as small as it was going to get, though I reserved the possibility of removing the engine mounting flanges later if need be.

With access now pretty clear, I worked on the shaft/transmission coupling.  As usual, the biggest issue in removing the bolts on the coupling was the fact that clearance was so tight near the nuts that it was difficult to get a true purchase with a wrench, which caused slippage and rounding.  With some penetrating oil and plenty of elbow grease, I eventually removed three of the four bolts successfully, but the fourth nut had rounded badly so I cut it off with a reciprocating saw.

The last thing to do before the engine was ready to come out was remove the mounts.  I could have unbolted the flexible mounts from the steel frame that served as the engine foundation in the bilge, but I’d have to juggle two wrenches–one held awkwardly beneath the frame–to release these bolts, and there were eight total.  Instead, I thought I’d first try to remove the nuts holding the engine flanges to the flex mount studs–just four, and more readily accessible, though they were all rather rusty.  But with good access, I had quick success removing all four, which meant I could leave the flex mounts for later removal once the engine was out of the way.

I did a rough measurement of the width of the engine from widest point (the starter recess in the bell housing on one side) to widest point (a protrusion on the engine block on the other side), and it looked like about 17-1/2″.  The little door into the engine room was just barely wider than this, about 17-3/4″, but the opening to the head behind the companionway ladder/door was narrower.  This was poor design on the original builder’s part, since the fiberglass molding could easily have been made a bit wider to allow engine passage, without remotely compromising any of the other functions it served in this area, but so it was.  However, there was enough room between the center part of the structure and the settee itself to allow the engine through, though I might have to make a relief cut to expand the opening enough.

What definitely needed to happen, though, was to remove some or all of the trim from around the opening–and I also had to deal with access to and from the boat and the head/engine room now and throughout the project, not only to avoid traipsing up and down the teak ladder during the dirty phases of work, but also because there was no access in or out of the boat when the head door was opened–and this would be necessary for the next stage of engine removal.

I repurposed an old 2×4 construction ladder I’d built for some other project, and with minor modifications to the top end fit it in place over the head door and companionway to the cockpit.  This allowed me to remove the head door and companionway ladder for safekeeping, and the new construction ladder was easily moved as needed for access to and from the after part of the boat.

Now I removed the small trim from the outboard side of the doorway.  Drilling out the bungs and removing the screws was uneventful, but I found the trim was glued in place with silicone, though this didn’t cause any real issues here.  I ‘d not planned immediately to remove the inboard side of the trim–the heavier piece to which the door hinges had been installed–but I decided I might as well, to improve the width that much more.  After removing the bungs and screws, though, I found the piece was immobile, apparently glued in with more silicone.  I didn’t want to destroy the trim, so for now I just left it alone and determine what else needed to be done later, once I had the engine ready to come through the opening.

Total time billed on this job today:  7 hours

0600 Weather Observation:  31°, clouds and windy with intermittent light snow.  Forecast for the day:  Light snow in the morning, coating to a couple inches predicted, around 32°

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Wednesday

Finishing up some last hardware installations, I removed the port deck prism from above the galley.  Like its counterpart to starboard, the prism had some damage, and the deck around and spreading widely from the opening was badly deteriorated.

Beneath the galley, I clipped off the wiring harnesses and removed the remaining water supply hose and little electric pump, mainly clearing the space for now.  I’d pull out the wire and hose remnants from the engine room a little later, once I got to work back there.  The galley sink drain seacock was frozen closed, at least without a tool to move the valve, and in any event through hull replacement was on the work list for the project.  Despite the general appearance of the space, the bulkheads and tabbing, at least at first inspection, appeared to be sound with no immediate issues apparent.

On the coachroof, I removed a solar vent.  The exposed core in the cutout appeared sound overall.

To get it out of the way and prepare for upcoming replacement with a modern hatch, I removed the hinged part of the wooden forward hatch.  I’d removed the framework in due course.

The large wooden companionway sliding hatch was secured in place with two metal plates, which rode in grooves in the side rails.  I removed these, and removed the hatch.  The wooden hatch appeared to be built from a plywood base with teak overlay, and the external teak planking was in marginal condition.  The solid teak rails and related trim was in weathered but generally sound condition, with some minor damage noted.

In the cockpit, to free up access to the lockers, I removed the locker lids, which were barely secured with simple hinges.  The hatches themselves were fairly flimsy and could benefit from some reinforcement, but were otherwise sound enough, but the means of attachment to the boat would require some work.

At the forward end of the cockpit, beneath the bridgedeck, was an expansive display of ancient electronics, including the engine control panel, all covered in an elaborate frame and smoked acrylic cover.  I removed the cover and frame, then removed all the instruments.   I’d already clipped the wires from the other side during earlier work.   I had to drill out the screw heads on the anemometer, as this unit was bolted in place and the nuts inside were too close to the instrument itself to  get any sort of wrench on.  I’d no idea how someone managed to tighten them down in the first place.

Now I turned to the engine room, located beneath the cockpit and accessed through a door at the aft side of the head or through the cockpit lockers.  The cockpit locker areas, while generally expansive, were difficult to work in because of a series of tall, narrow dividers well-glassed in place–handy for securing locker contents, but tough to work around and surprisingly limiting of access to some areas.  While access to the engine itself was basically good and offered far more room and availability than the tiny engine rooms on many boats, there were still numerous impediments to the space, and there was no direct–or even close to direct–overhead access to the engine for lifting and removal.  All the while, however, I was turning over the process in my head, and though removal would be challenging, I was pretty sure I had a workable plan.  The owner planned on repowering with an electric motor, so at least I’d only have to get the old engine out and not worry so much about shoehorning in the replacement.

On the starboard side forward were two existing batteries, battery switch, and related wiring, and starting here I systematically cleared out the space, removing the batteries, clipping cables to the engine, and dismantling the wiring on this side of the boat.

While I was there, I also removed the nuts from a final chainplate set located here and removed the bronze chainplate from the hull.

Moving over to the port side, I removed all the old wiring from this side, and cleared out anything else I could, including removing the fasteners from the manual bilge pump and removing bilge and exhaust hoses from the space.   I’d expected to be able work on the port side of the engine while on this side, but found that the configuration of the cockpit locker dividers was such that access was nearly impossible from a practical standpoint, and I figured I’d have better luck coming in from the other side and lying atop the engine as needed.  Here also, I removed the after chainplate.  I see that I forgot to get an “after” photo of the bulkhead when I’d removed the wiring.

Back on the other side, and with most of the wiring out of the way, I began cleaning out the rest of the space, removing scupper hoses (these were pleasantly easy to remove) and stripping various parts from the engine to reduce its size for removal, including the heat exchanger, exhaust elbow and riser (these were nearly new and were easy to remove), control panel wiring harness, gear and throttle cables, and the alternator.  This began to open up the space considerably, and considering the condition of the rest of the boat, the engine itself seemed surprisingly well-maintained given its age, though starting from scratch in this space was most definitely the only answer.

I’d continue work in the space next time as I strove to get the boat cleaned out as soon as possible.

Total time billed on this job today:  7 hours

0600 Weather Observation:  18°, mainly clear with some high clouds.  Forecast for the day:  Increasing clouds, mid 30s.